N.T.A: We have heard so much about the Brotherhood of the Cross and Star throughout the world, this is why the NTA is here to interview you, to know more about you, and about the Brotherhood organization. Having heard so much about you over the years, one would have expected that the Olumba Olumba Obu being talked about so many years ago would be a very old man with grey hair and unable to walk. But it is now surprising that as we look at you, it appears as if you look younger every year. You look younger this year than you were when I saw you last year. Is there any special thing you are doing to yourself spiritually to get younger and younger, while the older people are getting older and weaker? We do not understand. It is a marvel to us.

LEADER O. O. OBU: I have always said that the work here is done by the Holy Spirit. It is His responsibility that I look the way you perceive.

N.T.A: You are sure that maybe in the next hundred years you might look younger than you are looking now?

LEADER O. O. OBU: That, I do not know.

N.T.A: How was the BCS conceived? Is it the product of your thought? What is the origin of BCS? Did you just wake up and started hearing about it?

LEADER O. O. OBU: BCS has no origin. It has always existed. For me, I knew myself right from birth. I have never learnt from anybody. Never have I attend any church or prayer house, or institution.

N.T.A: Ete (Father), when you were younger, we are aware that you had other things you were doing, other than church work. But later on you started this church work which has now become a big ministry. How did you suddenly find yourself doing it? How did you know that you had to do it?

LEADER O. O. OBU: I knew myself when I was not up to three years of age. What I am doing now is my mission on earth. I did not come to do any other thing than what I am now doing. No one teaches me. All my teachings are supernatural. I have not learnt it from the Bible either.

N.T.A: How many years ago did you start the BCS?

LEADER O. O. OBU: Right from the day I was born. If you have read I AM THAT I AM, you will learn how the sight of a blind woman was restored on carrying the child Olumba who was just four days old. BCS has neither a beginning nor and end. It is natural. It is spiritual. All things are arranged spiritually. Your coming here today had already been spiritually arranged but you would not know from your physical considerations. All the questions you are putting across are directed by the spirit.

N.T.A: Ete, we are aware that BCS was started long ago when you were young. At what time did you forsake all worldly engagements and entanglements like trading and so on to concentrate on full-time ministry?

LEADER O. O. OBU: That was January 1956. From that time till now, I became fully involved in this ministry.

N.T.A: Was it as from that time that people started to draw nearer when you preached?

LEADER O. O. OBU: It is not as if I had not been preaching before then. The spread can be illustrated with the introduction of a new business. The first batch of products will go out for test-marketing and satisfied patronisers will recommend the product to others. I had not particularly gone out to preach, but the expansion has been tremendous.

N.T.A: A lot of your members say the leader is a spirit. So many others say He is not just a spirit, that He is God. In fact ninety percent of your members say you are the real God. Now that we have different versions of your personality being rumoured, whom will you say to an unbeliever that you are?

LEADER O. O. OBU: It is only the Holy Spirit that can reveal the leader`s true identity to you. No human being can do that. You cannot know me except the spirit reveals me to you. I cannot know you except the spirit reveals you to me. This is the time of the Holy Spirit. When you abide in the flesh, you cannot understand anything, but when you abide in the spirit, the spirit will reveal everything to you.

N.T.A: That is true, but I know the spirit has told you whom you are from birth, or even before you were born. Being that you know who you are, we want you to tell us. Maybe really knowing whom you are will help us acquire the Holy Spirit.

LEADER O. O. OBU: You are wrong.

N.T.A: Supposing one prays?

LEADER O.O.OBU: The Father, will reveal it to you. I cannot reveal anything to you.

N.T.A: Ete, supposing you hear your members proclaim; Olumba Olumba Obu is God, will you stop them or refute their claims?

LEADER O.O.OBU: I am not interested. Whether you say I am God or devil does not interest me. My interest is to preach “Love one another”. I want everybody to know his or her duty to each other.

N.T.A: I notice that your converts use different uniforms. Basically they all use white. Some use black belt (turban), some blue, some red. I also notice that in most cases you are always with the red attire. Can you tell us the significance of these attires; the white, the different colours of the belts (turbans), and specifically your own red garment?

LEADER O. O. OBU: Read Genesis 49:8-11: “Judah, your brothers will praise you. You hold your enemies by the neck. Your brothers will bow down before you. Judah is like a lion, killing his victim and returning to his den, stretching out and lying down, no one dares disturb him. Judah will hold the royal sceptre, and his descendants will always rule. Nations will bring him tribute and bow in obedience before him. He ties his young donkey to a grapevine, to the very best of the vines. He washes his clothes in blood red wine”.

Isaiah 63:1-6: “Who is this coming from the city of Bozrah in Edom? Who is this so splendidly dressed in red, marching along in power and strength?” “It is the Lord, powerful to save, coming to announce His victory.” “Why is His clothing so red, like that of a man who tramples grapes to make wine?” The Lord answered, “I have trampled the nations like grapes, and no one can help me. I trampled them in my anger, and their blood has stained all my clothing. I decided that the time to punish their enemies. I was amazed when I looked and saw that there was no one to help me. But my anger made me strong, and I won the victory myself. In my anger I trampled upon nations and shattered them, I poured out their life-blood on the ground.”

Read also: REVELATION 19:11-end.

Read also: REVELATION 7:9-end.

Also: REVELATION 3:4-5; But a few of you there in Sardis have kept your clothes clean. You will walk with me, clothed in white, because you are worthy to do so”.

“Those who win the victory will be clothed like this in white, and I will not remove their names from the book of life. In the presence of my Father and of His Angels I will declare openly that they belong to me”.

LEADER O. O. OBU: We are not concerned about churchism. This is God`s kingdom. White is a royal garment to be worn by the Children of God all over the world. You have to be reborn. Get baptized and be born again and put on the white as an identity of the Children of God.

N.T.A.: Which means that all those who are not in white (like myself)?

LEADER O. O. OBU: They are rebels.

N.T.A: They have no right to the kingdom of God?

LEADER O. O. OBU: You have not entered. White is a prerequisite to enter the kingdom of God. We are not concerned with church. We are concerned about the kingdom of God. You will recall that the disciples of John the Baptist went to him that he should teach them how to pray. The disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ also went Him and asked Him to teach them how to pray. That request resulted in our Lord`s prayer.

Matthew 6:9-11;
This, then, is how you should pray;”
Our Father in heaven:
May your holy name be honoured;
May your kingdom come;
may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today the food we need”.

LEADER O. O. OBU: I have not come into the world to joke. My prayer, gestures, etc, are all the words of God. This is that long expected kingdom of God.

N.T.A: We have also discovered that all your adherents, here in Nigeria and abroad; even during the cold winter months, walk barefoot, especially when they are coming to church and whenever they are in this heavenly attire (Soutane), why do they go barefoot? Is there any special significance in going barefoot? Why do they not wear shoes?

LEADER O. O. OBU: Read Acts 7:47-50;“but it was Solomon who built Him a house. But the most High God does not live in houses built by men; as the prophets say,

Heaven is my throne, says the Lord, and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house would you build for me?
Where is the place for me to live in? Did not I myself make all these things?”

LEADER O. O. OBU: Listen, because you came to learn, I am going to teach you. I have to teach the whole world. My duty is to teach. I AM THE SUPERNATURAL TEACHER. I have to teach the whole world to know God. All along, people have only made claims with their lips, but they do not know Him. Neither the Blacks, nor the Whites know Him. If you were to know God, you would not question His work.

My work is to teach. I give NTA a pass mark of 100% as an outstanding medium of propagating the news of God`s kingdom. You are doing the work of God. You have also entered the kingdom of God.

N.T.A: Without the white?

LEADER O. O. OBU: With the white in spirit. The above Bible portion subsumes that as you walk on the ground, you are walking on God, while sitting, you are sitting on God. It is for this reason that we do not wear shoes.

N.T.A: Which means in any part of the world God is there and as such it is not right to wear shoes?

LEADER O. O. OBU: Anywhere you are, God is there. Whether you wear shoes or not is not the important thing. The practice of going barefoot is to honour and respect Him. Since you have realized that heaven is His throne and earth His footstool, you don`t need to be told before you show this reverence for Him.

N.T.A: Somehow, those of us who are outside, (who have not entered the kingdom yet), when we watch you, it seems that your private life is surrounded with mystery. Some of your members say you do not eat; some say you could stay for months without eating anything at all. We really do not understand. Can you tell us a little bit about your private life? I know we are praying, leaving the scripture now to go into the private, but the world would want to know. We are even made to know that from the time you started the church work, you have not left the four corners of the Brotherhood building.

LEADER O. O. OBU: What do you want to know now?

N.T.A: I want you to tell us a bit about your private life.

LEADER O. O .OBU: I have no private life.

N.T.A: Do you go out?


N.T.A: You go out in spirit or physically?

LEADER O. O. OBU: I go out. The scripture says there is time for everything. There was a time when I used to go from house to house. There was a time when I was a trader. There was a time when I used to walk from here to 34 Ambo Street, Calabar to 26 Mbukpa Road, Calabar. It is only within this short time after the 1989 August Pentecostal assembly that I have stopped receiving visitors in the vestry. Before now, I have been attending to visitors from everywhere.

There was a time that I used to wash people`s feet (during ordination) but now I have stopped doing so. The scripture has apportioned time for everything, when they should start and when they should stop. Indeed I have no private life. I eat anything.

N.T.A: Do you eat meat?

LEADER O. O.OBU: God says we should not eat meat. Refer to Genesis 1:26-30; If you are still eating meat, put yourself in prayer.

N.T.A: You mean it is not good for me to eat meat?

LEADER O. O. OBU: Read Genesis 1:29.

LEADER O. O. OBU: It is abominable. Animals are your brothers. If you had the opportunity to read through one of BCS gospels, you will shed tears when you realize that you are kicking against God. You will realize that you are not worshiping God. I have come to teach the whole world to know the Father, my Father, your Father. God is nearer to you than the tongue is to the teeth. Or do you think that God is in outer space or at Jerusalem? God is within you. In BCS you cannot teach somebody to follow you to the mountain, or to follow you to Jerusalem. Why? Just kneel down and talk to your Father, and He will answer you. All the time the world keeps talking about church, church and church. What do you mean by church? God is omnipresent. He is in your room, inside your car and everywhere. This is the basis of the pride of members of BCS. Out of ignorance a lot of you refer to God as Beelzebub, or some such thing. God is everywhere. If you are sick, as a child of God, kneel down and pray and you will get well. Anything you say will happen. It does not require candle or any kind of concoction. I will take you round into all the premises here, like I have always done to every visitor so that you can see for yourselves that we do not hide anything here. In some places, when a woman is under menstruation she is forbidden from entering certain places. Why? Who caused the menstruation? There is no law in BCS. The only injunction is, “Love one another”. You can eat anything or choose to do without anything. Nothing poses a problem.

N.T.A: So, it is written, like it read that we should eat more of fruits?

LEADER O. O. OBU: That is what God wants from us. If you go to Jerusalem or India, you will find that many of them eat fruits only.

N.T.A: What about those who are in white and still eat meat and fish?

LEADER O. O. OBU: Then they are abominable people.

Taken from a transcript of the NTA interview held with the Holy Father, Leader Olumba Olumba Obu, in the Vestry, 34 Ambo Street, Calabar, August 1989.

Thank You Father